Charisma Magazine printed an excellent article by Patricia King in the February 07 issue (p 57). I would love to write about what she said, but I find it hard to get anywhere CLOSE to saying it any better than she already did! Why not read it before you go any further? Here it is:Living in the Throne Room
I have discovered that there are 2 types of Christian. One embraces the Physical and the other embraces the Spiritual.
The Physical Christian, for whatever reason, has difficulties in dealing with/believing in spiritual matters. They are trapped in the world's view of things, which only includes things they can relate to physically (see, taste, touch, etc).
They tend to put biblical miracles into the box of "those happened back then, but not now" (basically Cessationism). They pray for miracles today, and even say they've seen them, but seem confined to "I prayed to be healed of my cold and look- God healed me after a week!" (my examples are simplistic, but you get the picture).
They only believe in spiritual gifts such as Administration, Helps, Preaching, Teaching, Pastor, Evangelist, Missionary, etc, but completely relegate to biblical days the gifts of Healing, Deliverance, Prophecy, Tongues, Discernment, Miracles, Apostle . . . in other words, all the gifts that show God's immediate power.
They tend to believe in "the" Holy Spirit, but see him more as a force than a person. They are afraid of what he might do if they actually let him be in control of anything (their lives, a meeting, decisions, etc). In fact, many speak of him as an "it."
The Spiritual Christian is much more open to the Spiritual realm we live in. They tend to see the connection we have with the spiritual realm because God made us that way (Physical, Emotional AND Spiritual- God's image). They are often more inclined to believe something that is spiritual in nature as opposed to things that are physical in nature.
They believe in God's power and miraculous interaction with humankind as a daily occurrence to be savored. They pray for amazing miracles such as replacement of deteriorated cartilage and casting out of demons and actually SEE these things happen on a fairly regular basis.
They believe in the "power" gifts of the Spirit (note: ALL gifts show God's power in our lives, but I mean the obvious miraculous power we don't usually see around us) and USE them as God has given them. These are the Prophets who hear God's voice- today; the Apostles who lead in new creative ways; those with gifts of Deliverance who cast out real, live demons; the Worship Warriors who bring people into God's manifest presence, those who speak in Tongues, etc.
They believe Holy Spirit is a name, not just a title; he is a person not a force; he walks with us and directs our moment-by-moment steps AS we listen to him. They listen and let him have his way all the time, including in Army meetings when he shows up BEFORE the altar call and completely trashes the meticulously planned meeting we spent so much time setting up.
Jesus came to reconcile us to God; to show us the way back to the Father. Humankind had forgotten the spiritual aspect of our nature and Jesus showed us what it should be like living constantly in that realm. What he brought was NOT just for the people of that time. It IS for ALL who believe in him and know that there is MUCH MORE to life than the physical.
I am saddened by all the Physical-embracing Christians I see in our Army and the Body of Christ today (I pray for their liberation). If more Christians embraced the truth of the Spiritual realm, the Church would be so much stronger and much more of a serious force to reckon with in this world today. We could accomplish our mission if we used the tools God has built into us.
You, like all Christians, have a choice. You can embrace the Physical and live in that man-made box until Jesus comes back again. OR you can embrace the Spiritual which we were created to live in before we let the Physical take over.
Can You Hear Me?
13 comments:
I like this blog, i so want to be as far from a physical christian as possible, and so i am workin on it, thanks doug for your want for peeps to embrace the spiritualness and not be all as they are.
I choose to be a spiritual Christian. Bring it on...
I really enjoyed this post and reading the article by Patricia King. Especially the analogy about the cookies. That we are to enjoy all the Lord has for us.
The more I love the Lord, the more I read His word, the more I allow, as if I allow! ha, the more the Holy spirit takes control of me, the more I experience His fullness. Thanks for posting. Let's all talk more of the fullness of knowing and loving Christ.
Perhaps the "Spiritual Christian" as you describe is to an extent living in a state of denial about the way in which God chooses to work in the world today. It seems quite obvious that God doesn't miraculously heal very often today, and there seem to be some categories of illness which don't get healed at all - amputees, quadraplegics, cerebal palsy sufferers as three examples- I'd love to know of any independently, medically verified confirmation of someone being cured of these. Perhaps cessationists are right.
the comment by anonymous sent me scurrying to the encyclopedia, here is a link to cessationism.
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Cessationism
I see even within the Church today various levels of willingness to seek the truth. Perhaps it is our focus or lack of focus on Jesus Christ which determines the miracle. I'm not talking faith here, I'm talking true focus on Jesus. And the level of obedience and love and dedication to Him. Many Churches,or "Christians" no longer believe or know and therefore love Jesus and experience the present power of Jesus Christ today.
Let me know the difference of experience you receive when you completely focus and commit to a spouse or loved one, as opposed to barely noticing their presence at all.
anon: Sorry for my laughing out loud at your note . . . well, not really sorry. Just surprised a Cessationist showed up to comment on my blog! You must really LOVE the things I write. Imagine me wondering who you might be (and having a fair idea of at least who you could be).
I find it interesting that you would project your denial on those who live in scriptural truth. There are plenty of verified healings out there- I for one have personally experienced two powerful ones (that I can think of right off the bat) that I have been involved with. One of those just a couple years ago in Bangor. That woman had no cartilage in one of her knees and needed surgery. We prayed, I "saw" an image of a clear plastic-like substance growing in my mind's-eye, she now has cartilage in her knee again. BTW, cartilage doesn't regenerate. The independent doctor was amazed.
Another healing I witnessed was verified by a Salvation Army officer who is a doctor. My camper at Star Lake Musicamp had strep throat. He was headed home later that day because of it. We prayed, he no longer had it. Needless to say, he finished out music camp. One cabinmate that week became a missionary officer because of that event and has himself seen many miraculous healings in Russia since.
You make my point so nicely. If you deny that God heals today, then obviously you would deny any evidence of miracles I produce. I won't try to convince you- I've found it useless to argue with anyone who won't listen to truth when they see it. Denial is such a strong emotional choice. I pray you will allow God to open your eyes.
I would rather live in my so called "denial" and experience God's power in my daily life (as I do) than be able to control what God can do based on my beliefs (as Cessationists do).
I notice you have no scriptural reference to your thoughts. Not that I'm surprised- the beliefs of cessationism can't be found in scripture. So while we're on the question of proof, I challenge you to show me anywhere in scripture where it says spiritual gifts and God's power will cease before he returns. If you really do search for this evidence, you will in fact find the opposite. Which is why I am always amazed to find Cessationists still alive and well in the church today. Go figure.
I'm glad you found my comments amusing Doug, but don't be surprised by someone like me coming across your blog. Simply following links from one blog to another can land you in some pretty bizarre places, particularly I have noticed in Salvation Army blogland. As to having a fair idea who I might be, well to start with I'm on a different continent to you, so you are probably wrong. I find it quite amusing myself when someone such as yourself reacts so strongly to a differing opinion. I don't deny that God heals today, but I can't be absolutely sure that he does either. I do not profess to be a cessationist, but I wonder based upon the lack of evidence to the contrary that maybe they are right. You say that I would deny any proof of miraculous healings that you produce - again I would go back to the three examples of serious disability that I mentioned before - amputees, quadraplegics and cerebral palsy sufferers. There are millions of people in the world suffering from these ailments, there are millions of Christians proclaiming that God heals today and at least thousands of Christians who would be described as having the gift of healing, from Benny Hinn down to someone at their local church (and by down to, I am referring to their area of influence). So with thousands of healers and millions of believers, all leading or attending healing services or ministries over many years, surely there should be at least thousands of cases of amputees having limbs restored, quadraplegics becoming fully mobile and cerebral palsy sufferers being completely healed and living walking, talking, 'normal' lives. But there aren't. You find it "useless to argue with anyone who won't listen to truth when they see it" - what is the truth for the people that suffer these and other major physical afflictions? That they will be peddled false hopes of a full and complete healing in this life? Or should we simply show them God's love and compassion by helping them to live with and through their physical limitations? In fact the more I think about it the more I think I would prefer to be a "physical Christian", which by my definition is one who shows practical love and compassion for their fellow man and seeks to follow the example of Jesus. On the other hand the "spiritual Christian" seeks after supernatural experiences for themselves, wants to see signs, wonders and miracles (regardless of whether they are truly of God or not), and looks down upon those that do not sit on the same cloud of enlightenment that they believe they reside. Perhaps you should not be so quick to laugh out loud at other opinions - I've never met you, I'm unlikely to ever meet you, and all I know of you is what you write on this blog. So you may be quite a different person from who you are in this blog, however from the tone of your writings (and particularly your reply to my initial comments) you seem to be quite arrogant. I would hope you do not display this is person to people who are simply trying to search for God and the truth.
I have not read about all three of the illustrations that anonymous has used, but there are some accounts that do exist in current Christian writings:
Cerebral Palsy healing: Chris Simning, http://www.humelake.org/content/yc_sandiego.php
Cerebral Palsy healing, Jean Neil, http://www.eppingforestchurch.i12.com/testjn.html
Marlene Klepees, healed of both cerebral palsy and a spastic quadriplegic condition, http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/amazing/healing_marlene_klepees110501.aspx
I could not find testimonies of spontaneous regeneration of amputated limbs, but Peter Wagner wrote of the spontaneous growth of a missing ear for a baby during a South American worship service, and the accounts of the miraculous replacement of tooth filings with living teeth is actually frequent in the Pentecostal movement.
Christ said that His disciples would do even greater things than He did because He was returning to the Father. I have seen both miracles and healings as a result of my prayers as an Army Officer and I have seen no apparent change as a result of those same prayers for others. For every healing listed above, there are many more testimonies of disappointment. Then why do I still pray for signs, wonders, miracles and healing? John Wimber said it best - If he were to pray for 100 people to be healed and only one of 100 were healed, the healing of the one would be worth any personal feeling of failure on his part.
We have no power to heal, but Jesus said we can ask, so I ask. If people are not healed, I tell them to blame me, because I have not yet learned how to pray for them as I should. I just do not believe that the absence of miraculous power in the people of God is proof that God desires to withhold His miraculous power today.
Thanks for urging me to search the web on healing. I found some great teaching from past saints along the way.
Sorry, that one link was cut off:
http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/amazing/healing_marlene_klepees110501.aspx
anon: First, let me apologize for offending you. As I re-read my response a few more times, what I said really didn't come off very well. I think my reaction may have come from you inferring I am living in denial. I still find the thought of my being in denial funny, because I know differently. I do not find your opinion funny- in truth, my heart goes out to anyone who does not see God's power on a daily basis. I find that very sad.
I also re-read you first comment and I find it less "attacking of me" than at first read. I really gotta learn to read, wait, read, re-think and read again before I comment too quickly! I'm sorry for that too.
Now on to some responses:
You say a Spiritual Christian is offering false hope? I disagree completely. Bottom line- Jesus can heal; we agree on that and that's not false. My hope is completely in him. Will everyone be healed when we pray? I don't know, but I do know they can be healed and I will offer that hope to anyone seeking healing as long as I live.
You kind of make assumptions about Spiritual Christians- like because we focus on the spiritual, we don't do anything about the physical (eg, a Physical Christian will actually help the person and a Spiritual Christian will only pray and offer false hope). That's not a logical jump. I can pray, offer true hope and still help the person physically. We all should do this and I agree with you a person who only offers a kind word but does nothing to help the person physically is useless.
As to your comment a Spiritual Christian only seeks signs and wonders in and of themselves- please re-read the article I mentioned. Patricia King completely refutes that mode of thinking. The idea that we should seek God's face only and not his hand, is ridiculous. Maybe there are people who seek signs and wonders just for the sake of signs and wonders, but even Jesus said that was wrong.
If you can forgive me and take my comments out of the "offense category," I think we're not too far from agreeing here. What say you look up those references Howard left and let me know what you think?
14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women, 15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them. 16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. Acts 5:14-16
This has to be my most favorite example of healing after the Jesus returned to the Father.
That the very shadow of Peter healed all it fell on.
I really believe and know because of what has happened and is happening in my life through the restoring Power of Jesus that the reason we don't see as much healing these days is because we are just not focused on Jesus like the disciples were. If you only knew where I was just 5 years ago and what vexed me, and how at the moment of considering taking my life, Jesus himself came and lifted me. Only I know where I was and the demons that possessed me. And how HE delivered me. More than a new limb, He gave me a new heart, a new mind and a turned a life of horror to a life of love and beauty and devotion. I have heard of limbs being restored. but I don't have documentation. But is there anyone here, even the greatest doubters, that would not be instantly healed if Jesus walked into your room right at this moment? The church must make Jesus their primary focus. All the other talk and discussion is fine, But at the end of the day, or the beginning, Jesus is the only answer to every need. It is so simple, Yet we just wont allow ourselves to fall at his feet. The world has way too much of our attention. It waters down our power.
I promise you, I am assured in my spirit, if the Church turns fully to the Lord Jesus, Fully, following all he commands, Especially his command of love, the fullness of the church will not only be restored, it will exceed what it was, as He said it would.
I know, I know, get a pulpit.
I've looked into the links that Howard provided, and would comment as follows - Firstly for Chris Simning, it would appear that he has not being fully healed of his illness, rather that he is much improved from where he once was - http://www.freewebs.com/invisiblechildren_ccf/theblog.htm. It seems he gives inspirational talks to church groups about dealing with his illness and what he has overcome, but he is not completely free of the limitations of cerebral palsy.
Regarding the Jean Neil link, it talks about being healed of a back condition, not cerebral palsy.
The final link for Marlene Klepees does point to a full healing - here is a link to her business website and her story, and she seems to be unrestricted by cerebral palsy - http://www.heavensscentflowers.com/marlene.htm. So I am prepared to accept that this could be proof of complete healing.
With reference to your comments Jeff, yes I believe that people could be instantly healed if Jesus physically walked into a room today, just as He did 2000 years ago. But that is really the point I am trying to get across - there seems to be a big difference between healing then and healing now. I'm sure He has transformed your heart and that probably is a greater miracle than physical healing. Your comment that "the reason we don't see as much healing these days is because we are just not focused on Jesus like the disciples were" is similar to others I have heard used to explain the lack of healing that takes place today, but I really don't think that's a fair statement. It would seem to me that there are millions of people throughout the world earnestly and fervently praying for healing, yet it still rarely happens. Why is that so?
Doug, my use of the word 'denial' might be a bit strong, but it still seems the best way to describe Christians going around proclaiming that miraculous healings happen all the time, yet there is little or no proof, particularly when it comes to serious ailments such as the three examples I have brought up. I think Christianity lacks credibility in the world when we are unable to back up what we say. There have been extensive investigations into the ministries of Benny Hinn and the like (sorry to bring up his name again but he is one of the most obvious examples) and despite the millions who attend and seek healing at their services, there is virtually no verifiable evidence of anyone being healed. So aside from the financial aspects of their ministries, there is also the simple matter of where are the real healings?
I realize, more and more actually, my approach to the fullness of Christ is simplistic. It is where God has me these days. I use the Scripture Matthew 18:2-4 as my reference:
2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
The disciples lived together, ate together, studied together, shared everything, as well as saw Jesus perform miracles. As I think more about it, we don't have the same brother/sisterhood as the first church. Wealth is not shared, there are wealthy Christians & poor Christians. We live a myriad of different life styles and experiences. It's not the same Church as the original Church. I'm not disagreeing with Anonymous. I'm actually struggling with the truth of what he or she is saying as well. But, just like I can never give up on a child coming to salvation, no matter how lost or far out they appear to be, even if it takes a lifetime to get them to come back to Christ, I know, they will eventually come. Because God is faithful to answer our prayers. This is how I find myself approaching healing. There are things about my person that require physical healing, I've been believing God for years to heal me. And will continue. I don't know why he hasn't yet, but I can never stop believing he will. It's not in my makeup to give up on Him. He never said he would stop healing, in fact he said we will do even greater things. So that makes me believe it is not He that has stopped, but something we have done that has caused the cessation if you will.
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